Boundaries & Work-Life Balance with Matt Metras
Welcome to Underwithheld - the podcast by accountants and for accountants where we talk about our ubiquitous professional and personal struggles.
Spend some time with me and our colleague Matt Metras as we chat about boundaries and work-life balance. Matt is a solo tax advisor who focuses on crypto clients. He shares with us how he started in the profession, how his practice has evolved over time, and his approach to maintaining healthy advisor-client boundaries.
You can find Matt at MDM Financial Services and follow him on Twitter at @EmDeeEm.
Timestamps:
[0:17] Episode introduction
[03:49] Matt introduction - becoming an accountant during a crisis, become a crypto tax expert, hobbies & community service
[07:31] Issues - compression, seasonality, increased workload, legacy clients
[11:43] Possible solutions - Cull client list, setting expectations, increase communications
[16:20] What's worked, what hasn't
[22:34] It's an employees' market
[25:04] Family
[27:20] Conclusion - client fit & professional community
Transcript
we have this expectation that we just work by default work, 70
Matt:hours a week during busy season.
Matt:Right.
Matt:And, and no one question, I mean, we question, we complain about it, but no
Matt:one ever says, why, why are we doing this?
Matt:Why have we structured our fees in such a way that this is a
Matt:necessity for this business to.
Matt:Hey, this is Alison.
Matt:Welcome to under withheld the podcast by accountants and for accountants.
Matt:Where are we talking about our ubiquitous, professional and personal struggles?
Matt:You are not alone.
Matt:This episode is a conversation I had with crypto tax expert.
Matt:Matt Metris.
Matt:Matt is a New York tax advisor focused on clients in the crypto currency space.
Matt:While many tax professionals are just dipping their toes into the crypto waters.
Matt:Nat is a leading commentator in this emerging and quickly
Matt:evolving area of taxation.
Matt:Matt regularly provides both formal and informal continuing
Matt:education for other tax pros.
Matt:As you can imagine.
Matt:He's been quite busy the last several years.
Matt:Matt and I tackled the accounting professions, perennial
Matt:issue of work-life balance.
Matt:Or maybe we call it work-life harmony or work-life integration,
Matt:or maybe it's boundary setting.
Matt:At this point, the labels we use are probably all cliched.
Matt:The problem.
Matt:These phrases describe though is real.
Matt:If you Google work-life balance plus accounting, there's no
Matt:shortage of pages that pop up.
Matt:It's on all our minds.
Matt:In an industry that has become ever increasingly understaffed and overwhelmed.
Matt:How do we take care of our clients and colleagues while also taking
Matt:care of ourselves and our families?
Matt:spoiler alert, Matt and I don't arrive at any hard and fast answers.
Matt:Here is just two accountants talking about a real and hard problem.
Matt:In case it needs to be said.
Matt:I nor my guests are therapists.
Matt:We are not offering therapy.
Matt:We also may say things that just don't resonate with you.
Matt:And if so, that's totally cool.
Matt:There's nothing prescriptive here.
Matt:It's just colleagues talking about an issue that we see as huge in our industry.
Matt:And we hope talking about it and sharing how we approach it will help someone else.
Matt:If something sounds helpful to you here.
Matt:Cool.
Matt:If not, just ignore it.
Matt:Welcome to the show.
Alicyn:Hey, Matt.
Matt:Hey, Allison, how are you?
Alicyn:I'm doing great.
Alicyn:How are you doing today?
Matt:I am doing wonderful today.
Matt:I got very little sleep.
Matt:And so here we are chipper.
Matt:First thing in the morning, recording this.
Matt:No, my, my son slept at his or mostly slept at his grandmother's
Matt:house last night and decided at midnight that he wanted to come home.
Matt:So had to go pick him up at, at 12 in the morning and bring
Matt:him back home, but all good.
Matt:All good.
Matt:He got to sleep in his bed and, and I got a few hours of sleep.
Alicyn:I I meant was your chipper self, the result of caffeine.
Matt:no, that's not, I'm not there yet either.
Matt:I, you can see I'm working on it,
Alicyn:that, that was still sarcastic.
Alicyn:I'm with you.
Alicyn:How
Matt:I don't
Alicyn:your, how old is your son?
Matt:he's 10.
Alicyn:He's 10
Matt:Yeah,
Alicyn:Was this one of his first times away or.
Matt:no, he's usually he normally you know, sleeps there frequently, but just
Matt:last night, didn't didn't vibe for him.
Matt:And, and so we went and got him and it all worked out.
Alicyn:Oh, I'm sure he was very happy to see you.
Matt:Yeah, absolutely.
Matt:Absolutely.
Matt:And I'm very happy for this caffeine this morning.
Matt:So as we progress.
Alicyn:Well, firstly, thanks for taking time with me.
Alicyn:Thanks for being on the podcast.
Alicyn:We're gonna talk about boundaries, work, life balance, work, life harmony.
Alicyn:I think a lot of people call it a lot of different things.
Alicyn:but first, I know you have a lot going on in your life, both
Alicyn:personally and professionally.
Alicyn:Tell us your story, Matt.
Matt:I came to tax from a nontraditional route.
Matt:I went to film school and I worked in the film industry for a number of years.
Matt:So I had that exposure to working a hundred hour, 120 hour weeks.
Matt:And I really burnt out on it.
Matt:Right.
Matt:I didn't, I decided I didn't want to do this for the rest of my life.
Matt:And coincidentally around the same time that I was questioning all of
Matt:my life decisions my dad who had done taxes for his entire life
Matt:for 30, 40 years at that point was having a bone marrow transplant.
Matt:He was having, he had cancer a number of times.
Matt:And so he had a bone marrow transplant during tax season,
Matt:which as you can imagine, Was not the easiest thing to manage.
Matt:So I just jumped in to help, you know, plug numbers into forms and that sort of
Matt:thing, and sort of started learning that way in my early twenties how to do taxes
Matt:and it just sort of expanded from there.
Matt:I picked up some, some clients, unfortunately it was the clients.
Matt:He didn't want that he pawned off onto me.
Matt:But that's also a good learning experience, right.
Matt:Because if you have the most problematic clients to start with
Matt:everything else seems easier.
Matt:And then from there just sort of grew my practice for the longest time,
Matt:really until my son was born I worked a full time job in addition to doing
Matt:taxes like on nights and weekends.
Matt:And then when he was born I went the stay at home dad route and started.
Matt:Building the business a little bit more.
Matt:I got my EA in 2017 and really devoted myself full time to it then.
Matt:So I've been doing it for almost 20 years, but really full time.
Matt:It's, it's been six or seven years.
Matt:And in that same time around 2017 is when the crypto space really started taking
Matt:off, which is how I got into crypto tax.
Matt:A friend of mine, you know, showed me cryptocurrency.
Matt:I really had no idea about it.
Matt:And I started putting my own money into it first.
Matt:And then later on, I was.
Matt:What about the tax consequences of this stuff and, and it's
Matt:embarrassing as a tax professional that I never thought about it.
Matt:I'm like, Ooh, free money, free internet money.
Matt:And the IRS, you know, really had no guidance at the time, other than one
Matt:notice that had covered very little.
Matt:And so just started learning everything I can talking with other professionals
Matt:and really just building up a practice focused around cryptocurrency.
Matt:So hopefully, you know, we, we question it, cryptocurrency
Matt:will be here in the long haul.
Matt:I hope it is cuz a lot of my work is built around it, but been doing that
Matt:and, and this past year has just been insane as far as work goes and the amount.
Matt:Potential clients reaching out to me and have for the first time ever
Matt:gotten to the point in my career where I've turned off the intake valve.
Matt:Right.
Matt:I.
Matt:Flat out saying no to everyone who comes in.
Matt:And then on top of that, like I have all these volunteer.
Matt:Part-time other things that don't really pay money.
Matt:I, I do the tequila thing and do a YouTube series with
Matt:that and I was teaching classes.
Matt:My brother owns a Mexican restaurant.
Matt:So I was teaching classes there once a month.
Matt:And I've recently given that up just to, to try to reclaim some of my time.
Matt:I'm also a.
Matt:School board member.
Matt:So I've been doing that for five years as well, and that that's
Matt:almost a, it's a volunteer position.
Matt:We don't get paid but it's almost a 40 hour a week job in and of itself.
Matt:And I'm very fortunate being self-employed that I can sort of
Matt:rearrange my schedule as necessary to meet my, my school board obligations.
Matt:But it, it can be very difficult if you're working a traditional nine to five
Matt:type job and trying to balance that as.
Alicyn:Matt, I think what I'm hearing in all this and correct me is that
Alicyn:since your time in the film industry, you've just been drinking from a hose.
Matt:Yeah, pretty much, pretty much.
Matt:I say I'm burning the candle at all the ends, cuz it's more than both.
Matt:And occasionally sleeping.
Matt:Right?
Matt:and it's my wife's downstairs, I can go pull her up here and
Matt:she'll tell us how how much
Alicyn:a cameo in a
Matt:Yeah, how, how many things are on my plate and how little free time I have.
Matt:And, and this year, this tax season, I don't know about you, but for
Matt:me, this was probably the most miserable tax season I've ever had.
Matt:And it really pushing me to sort of reclaim some of reinforce the boundaries
Matt:and reclaim my own life and have some time for myself in there and my family as well.
Alicyn:Do you
Matt:Yeah, totally.
Matt:So, you know, I'm, I'm realizing that, you know, my son's at an age where I
Matt:I'm, when I'm in my office, 12 hours a day, seven days a week during taxis,
Matt:I'm not, I'm missing him grow up.
Matt:Right.
Matt:And it's being a small business owner being self-employed
Matt:is, is so difficult to say.
Matt:When new work presents itself, because you just don't know like, okay, I have
Matt:enough work to get me through the next two weeks, three weeks, two months, whatever.
Matt:And then who knows what's after that.
Matt:Right.
Matt:And the, the seasonal nature of our work, I make 75% of my
Matt:revenue in January to April.
Matt:And then the rest of the year, at least it used to be, you know, it used to be
Matt:from April 15th to really early September.
Matt:There wasn't a ton to do.
Matt:You know you know, some basic bookkeeping and stuff and not working full time,
Matt:enjoying summer, which was a great mix.
Matt:And then ever since 2020 happened, really when the, the extended deadline in 2020
Matt:that pushed it out till July sort of just drew out tax for the full year.
Matt:And then with PPP and E IDL and all the stimulus payments and everything
Matt:else, like it just never ended.
Matt:And it feels like it still hasn't ended.
Matt:And so I went into that, this tax season with roughly the same number of clients
Matt:that I've had historically, right.
Matt:I've been able to do 200 5300 returns doing during tax season.
Matt:But the big difference this year is that every return has taken
Matt:two or three times longer than it
Alicyn:Yeah.
Matt:does.
Matt:And so I at, at this point in the year have only gotten like 225 returns done.
Matt:I still have another 75 or so on extension at the point where I need to be done.
Matt:And the ones that are left are some of the hardest ones, unfortunately.
Matt:So they're gonna take the most amount of time, cause I've, I know I've,
Alicyn:goes.
Alicyn:Yeah.
Matt:cherry picked the easy ones.
Matt:I, I know that that's my fault.
Matt:But between the IRS issues, those things you know, and the way the crypto
Matt:space has grown, the crypto has just continued to expand exponentially.
Matt:And the tools that we use to do those reconciliations for the
Matt:tax return have not kept pace.
Matt:So those are taking a lot more time as well.
Matt:So this is really, this year has pushed me to the point where I have just declared.
Matt:I am going to reclaim my weekends next year.
Matt:I'm not sure how I'm gonna do it.
Matt:But I, I have been keeping a list of, of clients that need to be shown the door.
Matt:And that's a hard thing too, because some of these people I've worked with
Matt:for five, 10 years, you know, and it's
Alicyn:yeah.
Matt:Not, you know, and, and unfortunately some of these legacy clients
Matt:are some of the lowest paying ones, right.
Matt:Because I didn't, when I first started, I didn't value my work product high enough.
Matt:And so when I bring in a new client, now it's easy to bring them in at the
Matt:current rates that I'm charging people.
Matt:But if I have someone who's paying half that.
Matt:You can't double their bill and, and not have that be a
Matt:really difficult conversation.
Matt:So it's really a tough position to navigate, to try and figure out what's
Matt:what worked to keep, what worked not to keep and always keeping in mind.
Matt:I don't know what's gonna happen next year.
Matt:Right?
Matt:The government could ban crypto or something crazy.
Matt:And then I lose 75% of my client base.
Matt:And then what do I do?
Matt:I'll probably hit up tax Twitter and get hired by somebody else.
Matt:Look for a job.
Matt:But I do really appreciate, you know, the, the flexible schedule I have now.
Matt:And I think, you know, we, you and I, we had a conversation a few weeks ago
Matt:and we talked about like, is it to the point where I should be bringing in more
Matt:people to my firm and hiring people.
Matt:And I just don't know that that's the direction I want to go.
Matt:Right now I like being self-employed.
Matt:I like not managing people.
Matt:I like.
Matt:Being able to drop everything on a dime and go do something, knowing
Matt:that there's a consequence for that later of not having done the work.
Matt:But it's such a difficult decision to make because you're take it's one
Matt:thing to have responsibility for me and my own finances and my own success,
Matt:but to bring other people in and be responsible for their livelihood
Matt:too, is really daunting task me.
Alicyn:That totally makes sense.
Alicyn:So , you were saying that you wanna get those weekends back.
Matt:One of the things I'm gonna do is, is cut down on my client list.
Matt:There's no choice, right?
Matt:I can't give the same quality service to as many people now, as I used to.
Matt:It just, the, delays of the, I.
Matt:The, unnecessary and erroneous notices that are being sent out and that need
Matt:to be answered those all take time.
Matt:Right?
Matt:And your clients expect you to have the answers to these questions or get on
Matt:the phone and, and try and call the IRS, which is a nightmare in and of itself.
Matt:So you just can't provide the same high quality service to the
Matt:same number of people anymore.
Matt:Which means you have to service fewer people, which means you have to charge
Matt:more per person that you service, if you wanna make the same amount of money, which
Matt:is okay, that's the math equation fine.
Matt:So we do figuring out who you're not gonna service anymore.
Matt:Like I said, is the, is the really difficult part.
Matt:I think the other thing that, that I struggle with is, is setting
Matt:and maintaining expectations.
Matt:My plan going into this coming year is in January to let everyone know.
Matt:It's more likely than not that your return is gonna go on extension.
Matt:It's one thing to tell everybody, April 13th, that they're going on extension, and
Matt:it's one thing to tell them in January.
Matt:So they're ready for it and focused on it.
Matt:It was, it was really tough this year because I just, I, my goal was to not put
Matt:as many returns on extension as I did.
Matt:But I got to the point where it's okay, it's a week before
Matt:the deadline, what am I gonna do?
Matt:I gotta extend all these returns.
Matt:I can't get them done.
Matt:There's just not enough time in the day.
Matt:And I think that will help.
Matt:Just, just managing those expectations of the clients being communicative is
Matt:another thing that is, is a struggle.
Matt:Because a lot of days I have to choose between answering my email.
Matt:Or actually doing work.
Matt:And the more time I spend responding to status requests and answering emails the
Matt:less time I actually do tax returns and.
Matt:That is something that I'm, I'm looking at using some automation in my, in,
Matt:I have a portal system and, you know, you can set different stages and you
Matt:can set automated emails to go out when you move things, you know, you move
Matt:the client between stages and it'll say, this is, it's like, you know, the
Matt:dominoes pizza tracker or whatever, like here's where your order is right now.
Matt:It's out for, you know, so that I think that might help.
Matt:But really it's just a lot.
Matt:Helping clients understand what a dumpster fire this has become because a lot of
Matt:them have not changed their expectations around the understaffing at the IRS
Matt:around why they're getting these notices.
Matt:When, when a client gets a notice that shouldn't have ever been sent, their
Matt:first thought is that I screwed up
Alicyn:Oh, sure.
Matt:And so immediately I'm on the defensive as far as explaining
Matt:why they got this notice explaining that the IRS is chronically
Matt:underfunded and they haven't process.
Matt:20 million returns or whatever the current number is.
Matt:And we've all seen pictures of like the, the campus at Austin where the
Matt:cafeteria is full of paper that needs to be processed and explaining your yeah.
Matt:Your return or your letter, your response to that letter is in that pile somewhere.
Matt:And they've made it so we can't call them.
Matt:So we used to be able to.
Matt:Make a quick phone call, resolve these things relatively quickly.
Matt:Now you spend hours on hold, even on our special practitioner line.
Matt:And if you get through the person might not even be able to help you.
Matt:Oh, the computers are down today.
Matt:Or,
Alicyn:Oh, yeah.
Matt:You need to give us another 90 days or whatever, and, and it's
Matt:just super frustrating because your clients expect answers and you
Matt:can't really provide 'em for 'em.
Matt:That's.
Alicyn:I'm trying to call the same unit of the IRS over and over all week long,
Alicyn:nothing, nothing, just, you know, first thing in the morning, middle of the day,
Alicyn:at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.
Alicyn:It's we're busy.
Alicyn:We can't answer calls ., I think we've protected our clients for as
Alicyn:much as we can for as long as we can.
Alicyn:And now it's just, it's a deluge.
Matt:It really is.
Matt:And, and you know, this, we have this debate on tax Twitter a week
Matt:or two ago around how much we should insulate our clients from this process.
Matt:Right?
Matt:Like if we're, if we're the saviors and constantly fixing things and they
Matt:don't realize how bad it is, Then they don't a appreciate what we're doing, but
Matt:B they're not, they're less likely to complain to their Congress person, right?
Matt:Who's the, who's the one who can fix this.
Matt:If they have to share in some of the discomfort around engaging with
Matt:the IRS, they're much more likely to send an email to their Senator or the
Matt:representative and say, look, we need.
Matt:Even just the basic funding we need, you know, and we're seeing
Matt:some very, very small technical optimizations coming outta IRS.
Matt:But when you look at some of the state agencies and the things that you can
Matt:resolve online there compared to the IRS it's night and day and it's just that
Matt:the IRS never had the funding to do it.
Matt:And we're sort of stuck translating between a 1970s computer system and our
Matt:clients and explaining these letters that are often vague or just flat out wrong.
Alicyn:I wanna ask you a question, Matt.
Alicyn:It's been years for you now.
Alicyn:Really?
Alicyn:That you've just been working hard and working a lot working long hours work
Alicyn:that is already mentally fatiguing.
Alicyn:But you're doing it at a level and a place with your emphasis in
Alicyn:crypto taxation, where you're really having to come up with, if you will,
Alicyn:best practices all on your own.
Alicyn:Maybe not quite on your own, but there's not a ton of
Alicyn:people in the crypto tax space.
Alicyn:So I think what I'm getting to is, you know, just kind of this nonstop.
Alicyn:And I know you've got some things in place that you're thinking about doing or are
Alicyn:doing, but maybe over this period, do you have some things that you've tried
Alicyn:that have been helpful for you and some things that you've tried that have not
Alicyn:been helpful for you in terms of having work life balance, work, life, harmony,
Alicyn:setting boundaries, that sort of thing.
Matt:Yeah, I think I'll start with what hasn't worked.
Matt:Cuz there's a lot of that.
Matt:And, and a lot of it is just.
Matt:Is committing to, to doing it and putting a procedure in place to do it right.
Matt:Because if I say I'm only gonna work until six o'clock, I have, I have
Matt:to actually stop at six o'clock.
Matt:Right.
Matt:If I'm laying in bed at nine and I'm still answering email on my
Matt:phone, that is not really effective.
Matt:Because I'm.
Matt:Especially, I, you know, I work from home, so I, my it's a, you know,
Matt:four step commute to my office.
Matt:And so I'm always at work.
Matt:It's very difficult, you know, if, when I used to work in an office, at least you
Matt:can leave some of that emotional mental baggage at the office, but if you're
Matt:always at the office and you know, with the advent of smartphones and, and
Matt:having twenty four seven accessibility that is very, very difficult to, to
Matt:self-manage, especially if you're the one in charge and you wanna provide
Matt:that excellent customer service, right.
Matt:Enforcing those boundaries.
Matt:I, so one of the things that has worked is I used to run my business
Matt:completely from my cell phone.
Matt:I still do.
Matt:But all of my clients had my personal cell phone number.
Matt:And that people will push the lines.
Matt:I had clients calling me at 11 o'clock midnight, and I'm like,
Matt:what is, what is wrong with you?
Matt:Like,
Matt:Do you think.
Matt:You know, you wouldn't call your doctor or your lawyer at midnight
Matt:and expect them to answer.
Matt:Maybe you would.
Matt:I don't know.
Matt:And that particular client who is no longer a client, I should say
Matt:former client was the same one who would show up at my house on
Matt:October 15th without an appointment.
Matt:And, you know, four inches of.
Matt:Of materials and so that, you know, realizing that not every client
Matt:is a good fit for you is helpful.
Matt:I, I mentioned I was using my cell phone.
Matt:I went and got a Google voice number that I pay for, and I
Matt:transitioned everything over to that.
Matt:That number turns off at 5:00 PM.
Matt:So if you call me after 5:00 PM, it doesn't ring through you
Matt:get the voicemail problem solve.
Matt:Or problem solved ish.
Matt:You know, cuz a lot of people still have the old number, which
Matt:is a whole different story.
Matt:That way people can text there too.
Matt:The texts get copied in my email.
Matt:I don't have to manage texts cuz clients love to text.
Matt:Right?
Matt:You text my personal phone and it, it just moves down.
Matt:Eventually you forget to respond to it.
Matt:Those things have been really practical.
Matt:I have a service.
Matt:It's not even service.
Matt:It's like a plugin.
Matt:You know, I use a, a Google suite kind of email for my domain.
Matt:You can, I can pause my inbox or I can set my inbox to not display new emails during.
Alicyn:Ah, okay.
Matt:to really crank out some work and not be distracted because a lot
Matt:of times emails just trickle in 24 7.
Matt:Right.
Matt:And you, and a lot of 'em like, oh, I can answer this real quick, but
Matt:you don't think about how much you're disrupting your train of thought.
Matt:You know, I'm in the middle of return, I'm doing something complex.
Matt:I see this email pop up.
Matt:I'm like, oh, let me answer it real quick.
Matt:Cause it's a distraction and anything that's a distraction is great.
Matt:You know, I, that's why I go on Twitter for the same reason.
Matt:I wanna not work for 10 minutes.
Matt:I'm gonna go see what's going on over there.
Matt:So pausing the inbox is really helpful.
Matt:This about two years ago, I started requiring.
Matt:All of my phone calls to be scheduled in advance.
Matt:And that allows me to again, have these blocks of time where I work.
Matt:You know, not every client was super receptive to it, but it's
Matt:something that had to be done.
Matt:Usually I have availability within the next day or two, go on the calendar,
Matt:click a link, and I'll give you a call and we'll talk all you want.
Matt:Right.
Matt:But like having calls come in while I'm trying to focus on something
Matt:really disrupts the train of.
Matt:And I also implemented a fee for a consult for a new client.
Matt:And that I, I found, especially early in the crypto days, I would
Matt:go on podcasts and YouTube things.
Matt:And like you said, there's not a lot of people doing this work, so people would
Matt:watch these videos and then they would all call with their really simple question.
Matt:Right.
Alicyn:Oh, sure.
Matt:And it's like,
Alicyn:a quick
Matt:And a lot of times it was even a lot of times, even it was an easy question,
Matt:but I was answering all those for free and I was answering those all the time
Matt:and I was always on the phone always.
Matt:And I'm like my mentality at that point in time was okay, I'm gonna
Matt:answer this for free as a, a sales, you know, loss leader kind of thing.
Matt:And.
Matt:It turned out.
Matt:I was spending so much time on the phone that I was also
Matt:struggling to get work done.
Matt:And I'm, I'm borderline gen X millennial.
Matt:I don't wanna talk on the phone.
Matt:I'd much rather email text, but you know, people who want
Matt:to talk on the phone all day.
Matt:I just, I it's always that I have a quick question, like, okay.
Matt:Tell me what it is ahead of time.
Matt:And that's another thing with the scheduling of.
Matt:Tell me why you want to talk because half the time the phone call says,
Matt:well, I wanna do X I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna have to research that
Matt:and get back to you because I don't have the entire tax code memorized.
Matt:And we'll have to look at how this has been treated elsewhere.
Matt:And so a lot of that gets avoided by having the question
Matt:already written out for you.
Matt:And again, summarized an email.
Matt:You can go back to it later.
Matt:So if, if you call me up on the phone and we have our quick conversation, I either
Matt:have to take contemporaneous notes and store them somewhere and know to look at
Matt:them later on which a I'm not gonna do.
Matt:And B I won't, you know, I still won't know what's going on.
Matt:Or if I go back to our email thread as an alternative, then I can see
Matt:you know, what we talked about and why, and jog my memory a little bit,
Matt:instead of having to remember why.
Matt:You know, we, we chose to do this thing the way we did in the heat of taxis.
Matt:And making a decision at 10:00 PM, you know?
Matt:Okay.
Alicyn:So a lot of the things that you've just been talking about are
Alicyn:very helpful in the space of I'm self-employed I work for myself.
Alicyn:Here's how I'm setting, enforcing boundaries.
Alicyn:Here's what's working for me.
Alicyn:Here's what's not.
Alicyn:Do you perhaps have any thoughts for folks that might have less control over
Alicyn:their situation, folks that are employees working for someone else at an accounting
Alicyn:firm in industry, something like that?
Matt:Yeah, that's a much tougher situation, right?
Matt:Because I do have all the control in, in what happens in my practice.
Matt:I, I, I think the only advice I can offer is to realize what
Matt:a valuable asset you are as a trained tax professional right now.
Matt:And that very much the, it is it's a buyer's market
Matt:when it comes to employment.
Matt:We're seeing a
Alicyn:sellers market.
Alicyn:If
Matt:Dollars market.
Matt:Yeah.
Matt:Buy who's the buyer.
Matt:Who's the selling at the
Alicyn:the, if the buyer is the employer,
Matt:yeah, you're
Alicyn:not their market right now.
Matt:Oh no, you're right.
Matt:It's the opposite.
Matt:It's the, I'm gonna say it's the employees market we're seeing tons of, you know,
Matt:we already know that in accounting, the average age of the accountant skews much
Matt:older than a lot of other industries.
Matt:And we see that our our industry is particularly top heavy as far as age
Matt:wise goes, and, and there's not a lot of replacement coming into the pipeline.
Matt:So there there's, if we're not already.
Matt:There's an impending accountant shortage in the near future.
Matt:So realizing the value of your labor and, and knowing what practices are
Matt:toxic and not, you know, we, we have this expectation that we just work by default
Matt:work, 70 hours a week during busy season.
Matt:Right.
Matt:And, and no one question, I mean, we question, we complain about it, but no
Matt:one ever says, why, why are we doing this?
Matt:Why have we structured our fees in such a way that this is a
Matt:necessity for this business to.
Matt:And so I think, you know, being open with your employer around your expectations
Matt:is, is probably the best bet there.
Matt:You know, it's all, all comes down to your personal situation.
Matt:I know I've been in situations where I've worked jobs that I wasn't really thrilled
Matt:about and I didn't have a lot of leverage and I also had to pay my mortgage still.
Matt:And, and so I get that right.
Matt:You can't always be as forthcoming with you know, negotiations and, and that sort
Matt:of thing, but realizing you're worth.
Matt:And you know, there's always, it, it seems like constantly when we look
Matt:at, at Twitter and Facebook, there's constantly postings for new positions.
Matt:So you know, now is the time to leverage the, the power that you have to get at
Matt:least somewhat better working conditions.
Matt:If you're unhappy with what you're doing now, I.
Alicyn:I think other people might be interested to hear how
Alicyn:this looks from your family's perspective when you're working.
Alicyn:Seven days a week, 12 hours a day.
Alicyn:How do they feel?
Alicyn:How does, how you approach your job impact your family?
Matt:Absolutely.
Matt:And you know, I'm, I'm very fortunate because my family is
Matt:super supportive of, of this.
Matt:Right.
Matt:But that does not mean it's not stressful.
Matt:You know, especially during the busy season, you know, I don't
Matt:see the inside of a grocery store.
Matt:My.
Matt:My son is involved in tons of extracurriculars.
Matt:And my wife carries that like completely, but she's got her own stuff going on.
Matt:She's, you know, a professional with her own career.
Matt:And she does a great job of, of picking up that slack.
Matt:But we have really we communicate a lot.
Matt:Right.
Matt:And we make sure we're on the same page.
Matt:We make sure that.
Matt:Each other's feeling heard and understood about the things that are stressing us.
Matt:And, and it is really difficult to, to detach from the work life.
Matt:One of the things that we do as a specific is, is during busy season,
Matt:we usually on Wednesdays do a date night while my son's at one of
Matt:his extracurricular activities.
Matt:There's a bar right next door.
Matt:So we both take him, we go have a drink, we reconnect a little bit.
Matt:But it's taken us a long time to get to this place as well.
Matt:And we've definitely struggled over the years and it's, it's absolutely
Matt:put stress on our relationship.
Matt:And we've, we've overcome that.
Matt:Lots of communication and solid communication.
Matt:And I think we've both grown in that aspect of making
Matt:sure that things are covered.
Matt:And then when I'm less busy during the summer and, and the fall or, or whatever
Matt:I try to do more than my fair share, like around the house and that sort
Matt:of thing, and, and try to alleviate, take some of that off of her plate,
Matt:you know, she's she's an educator.
Matt:So her work is, is somewhat seasonal as well.
Matt:And she has busier times in September and, and also now at the end of the year.
Matt:So like the more that I can do, making sure stuff gets done,
Matt:making sure our kiddo gets run around where he needs to be.
Matt:You know, I, do my best to try to, put in my, my portion of our
Matt:relationship and domestic stuff that is really boring sometimes, you
Matt:know, I make sure the laundry's done.
Matt:But yeah, we have, we are a great team and, you know, I, I couldn't
Matt:be more lucky in that department.
Alicyn:Is there anything else you would like to share with folks who are
Alicyn:listening about setting boundaries, maintaining boundaries, having work life
Alicyn:balance that you can sustain anything?
Matt:Yeah.
Matt:I think one thing that that comes to mind is, is, you know, working alone.
Matt:It gets really lonely sometimes.
Matt:Right.
Matt:And I have a few friends that I can reach out to during the day, but
Matt:most of my friends have jobs, right.
Matt:I can't call 'em up at 11 in the morning and say, Hey, you want to get lunch?
Matt:So having online communities like Twitter, there's a tax pro
Matt:discord that I spend some time in.
Matt:And like just having that.
Matt:Is is really beneficial for me both for education, right.
Matt:I learn a ton being on Twitter.
Matt:But you know, being on Twitter and engaging with people, we meet
Matt:cool people like you and all of everybody else on tax Twitter, that's
Matt:doing these amazing things, right?
Matt:Like this isn't part of your job, you know, and, and you're putting
Matt:together this awesome show and, and.
Matt:The first episode came out a couple weeks ago and really I had some great
Matt:takeaways and, and you know, I've been doing this a long time and, and
Matt:I, that was about imposter syndrome.
Matt:And I've struggled with that because again, there's no check and balance.
Matt:When you work by yourself, you only get the feedback you get.
Matt:I don't have a manager who reviews my work and tells me that
Matt:I did something right or wrong.
Matt:So as long as I don't get a notice on it, I assume that
Matt:it went, that it was correct.
Alicyn:statue, the limitations ran.
Alicyn:I'm I'm good.
Matt:Exactly.
Matt:Exactly.
Matt:All right.
Matt:Complete those 2017 files.
Matt:Yeah.
Matt:But yeah, so that is just having an outlet like that is super helpful.
Matt:And you know, just committing to the things that I want to improve and, and
Matt:even if it's GRA granular putting in those processes to incrementally, make things
Matt:control more of my time that that's, you know, you can't take a practice that
Matt:you've been doing for 20 years and just.
Matt:180 on a diamond.
Matt:And I've had that conversation on Twitter with a lot of people too.
Matt:They're like, oh, you need to completely do X, Y, and Z.
Matt:And I'm like, yeah, but like I, can't fire a hundred percent of my clients
Matt:today and start over tomorrow because you know, the, I, I need to live.
Matt:And so it's all, it's all gradual, you know, every year I get wor get
Matt:rid of the you know, the bottom of the, the people who have caused
Matt:me the most stress during the year.
Matt:And you know, if, if there's there's different tiers of clients and not, and.
Matt:They're not necessarily a bad client.
Matt:They're just not a good fit for me.
Matt:Right.
Matt:Like, I, I like the portal.
Matt:I like email and I have clients who wanna bring all their papers and
Matt:sit down across the desk and have a cup of coffee and do their texture.
Matt:And that's not my style.
Matt:And that's fine.
Matt:Like, we can find you someone who will do that with you and it's not, it's not me.
Matt:And you know, I'm all digital.
Matt:I don't wanna touch paper if I can help it.
Matt:And that was another thing that.
Matt:I just added this year.
Matt:I added a surcharge for handling paper to deter people from not using the portal
Matt:because everything is so streamlined and the more streamlined I can get
Matt:it, the more efficient it will be.
Matt:And the less time I will actually spend at work.
Matt:And that's really the ultimate goal, I think.
Matt:That's a wrap, my friends, reach out and let me know what you think.
Matt:I appreciate you listening in to this episode of under withheld, the podcast
Matt:by accountants and for accountants, where we talk about our ubiquitous
Matt:professional and personal struggles.
